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Author	Topic: Big spread in utility rates reduces environmental benefits of electric vehicles	Post a Reply Back to Topics

PD Moderator	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2012 2:02:12 PM Ignore PD Report Abuse In fairness to the Nissan Leaf, the Chevy Volt, and other plug-in vehicles, we've got to cut them some slack and recognize that the first-generation of almost any major innovation often has plenty of room for improvement. With plug-ins, we've got a class of vehicles that can help reduce greenhouse gases and protect the atmosphere. By driving these vehicles, the incentive for consumers is supposed to be that we will save all that money we would have been spending on gasoline. The problem, of course, is that the plug-ins generally cost $8,000 to $20,000 more than comparable gasoline versions, according to the Detroit News, and it can take years or decades to recoup the higher initial cost. Consequently, the... Visit GasBuddy Blog for full article

Moderator

Message Posted: Apr 18, 2012 2:02:12 PM

Ignore PD Report Abuse

In fairness to the Nissan Leaf, the Chevy Volt, and other plug-in vehicles, we've got to cut them some slack and recognize that the first-generation of almost any major innovation often has plenty of room for improvement.

With plug-ins, we've got a class of vehicles that can help reduce greenhouse gases and protect the atmosphere. By driving these vehicles, the incentive for consumers is supposed to be that we will save all that money we would have been spending on gasoline.

The problem, of course, is that the plug-ins generally cost $8,000 to $20,000 more than comparable gasoline versions, according to the Detroit News, and it can take years or decades to recoup the higher initial cost.

Consequently, the...

Visit GasBuddy Blog for full article

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bart_reed Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:3,954 Points:781,630 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 9:41:32 AM Ignore bart_reed Report Abuse Get solar panels to get around this.
gknee09 All-Star Author Philadelphia Posts:976 Points:819,110 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 9:14:57 PM Ignore gknee09 Report Abuse paying more one way or another
pbug101 Champion Author Georgia Posts:2,433 Points:574,925 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 8:31:23 PM Ignore pbug101 Report Abuse ok
bojiway1 Champion Author Minnesota Posts:2,024 Points:474,060 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 4:32:45 PM Ignore bojiway1 Report Abuse pay now and later
GatorGuy Champion Author Columbia Posts:2,220 Points:1,202,985 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 3:32:49 PM Ignore GatorGuy Report Abuse Can't win-pay now or pay later.
LongPlay Champion Author Albuquerque Posts:4,222 Points:1,235,300 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 3:06:47 PM Ignore LongPlay Report Abuse When all efficiencies are included, electrics are a waste of money and use as much or more energy in operation and production than many conventional vehicles.
Billbop Champion Author St. Louis Posts:2,782 Points:1,447,690 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 2:29:56 PM Ignore Billbop Report Abuse Most people don't buy $40,000 pickup trucks to haul dirt, why would people need to "justify" buying one of these vehicles for just the gas savings. Every gallon they don't use, is one gallon we don't have to buy from people who hate us.
bbthegun Champion Author San Diego Posts:5,968 Points:1,677,115 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 2:17:18 PM Ignore bbthegun Report Abuse They're not viable in California at our ridiculously higher electricity rates thanks to the envirocommies.
DeeLA Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:4,792 Points:1,360,355 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 2:07:13 PM Ignore DeeLA Report Abuse Interesting.
gptrk All-Star Author Detroit Posts:823 Points:812,000 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:59:38 PM Ignore gptrk Report Abuse So why all the doomslayer only concern with EV and hybrids is the higher cost,the cost of recouping the difference between them and a regular gas engine, and concerns about the batteries, like disposal and life. We own two hybrids and bought them for a couple of reasons. Mileage is great but never looked at the how long it would take to break even with a comparable gas engine alone. It just makes us feel better in hoping we are helping the future with using less petroleum and also seeing a savings of 30-50 percent every time we fill up for the MPG we get. The batteries are recyclable and with the Prius, I've read reports over going over 300,000 mile without a failure yet. When is the last time you've driven your gas-only vehicle over 200,000 miles. Cost with our vehicle for maintenance since 2008 has been zero, except for the normal oil changes.
condé Champion Author Michigan Posts:3,726 Points:1,810,640 Joined:Oct 2004	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:56:48 PM Ignore condé Report Abuse Wait a minute the Government hasn't stepped in as yet to apply their usage TAX/FEE for electic cars, plug in's. Next on the menu is how you sleep with your lover... laugh that one up too!
sparky808 Champion Author Honolulu Posts:2,976 Points:593,835 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:53:45 PM Ignore sparky808 Report Abuse Thank you for posting.
jpj23 Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:5,695 Points:1,096,675 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:44:11 PM Ignore jpj23 Report Abuse My local utility chooses to peg trash, sewer and hazardous waste disposal costs to home electricity use. If I stopped using gasoline and started charging my car each night my electricity use AND all of my other utility fees would go up, even though I wouldn't be using more of those. So, since my city actively penalizes people for using more electricity I won't be buying an electric car.
Ken2OD Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:9,047 Points:1,966,965 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:43:45 PM Ignore Ken2OD Report Abuse There are too many alternatives!
ihateroute8 Champion Author Akron Posts:5,456 Points:1,213,435 Joined:Jul 2003	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:43:02 PM Ignore ihateroute8 Report Abuse Hydrogen is the way to go.
nehemiah Champion Author Portland Posts:4,741 Points:926,615 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:42:38 PM Ignore nehemiah Report Abuse we need more alternatives
DutchTreatMI Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:3,290 Points:746,940 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:40:05 PM Ignore DutchTreatMI Report Abuse The majority of american's can't afford these cars.
Ticoman54 Champion Author Miami Posts:7,021 Points:1,487,045 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:39:58 PM Ignore Ticoman54 Report Abuse The price of EV's needs to be reduced to justify their purchase.
Hugo40 Champion Author Kentucky Posts:7,604 Points:1,613,005 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:37:31 PM Ignore Hugo40 Report Abuse You think!
RAC110 Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:5,944 Points:1,850,570 Joined:Mar 2003	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:36:22 PM Ignore RAC110 Report Abuse a lot of things to be worked out in time
carrollcreek Champion Author Minnesota Posts:3,107 Points:873,070 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:34:38 PM Ignore carrollcreek Report Abuse This is the case with any car that is new to the market. I'm sure if they would have done this study in the early 20th century, it would have shown us that horses were the better option and cheaper to own then these new machines. Then where would we be?
popeye2009 Veteran Author Ottawa Posts:359 Points:455,725 Joined:Sep 2009	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:33:39 PM Ignore popeye2009 Report Abuse Artificially raising hydro rates under the guise of environment green energy plans will reduce people from owning elec. cars and have to buy gas cars. Expensive windmills and solar panels bankrupted California and soon Ontario.
tobasco Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:7,346 Points:2,105,210 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:32:07 PM Ignore tobasco Report Abuse The numbers don't add up...that's why EV's are only selling to those who can afford to "be green."
Teddy95 Champion Author Dayton Posts:41,125 Points:2,692,125 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:31:21 PM Ignore Teddy95 Report Abuse Hummm....
suzyq2007 Champion Author Dallas Posts:7,144 Points:1,645,950 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:31:14 PM Ignore suzyq2007 Report Abuse do not want one
IrishCowboy Champion Author Fort Wayne Posts:1,431 Points:569,130 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:31:12 PM Ignore IrishCowboy Report Abuse Incentivizing EV's isn't the answer. We're still paying more in the end, whether individually or as a nation. Get the prices to a more competitive level and more people will think about it.
gasokie Champion Author Oklahoma Posts:3,442 Points:1,323,805 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:27:38 PM Ignore gasokie Report Abuse The problem usually comes down to the economics. The electrics are just too high.
ILANGE9 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,590 Points:1,592,225 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:26:27 PM Ignore ILANGE9 Report Abuse Sure the green house gases will be reduced until PLUGGED IN AND RECHARGED. I agree with indrix.
Benz98 Veteran Author Modesto Posts:370 Points:21,285 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:21:51 PM Ignore Benz98 Report Abuse Ok
smooth_cm All-Star Author Ontario Posts:511 Points:557,515 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:21:12 PM Ignore smooth_cm Report Abuse I thnik i would pay way mor in energy costs that in gas cost to charge my car....Our hydro bills are crazy around here.
jrcowell Champion Author Wichita Posts:2,274 Points:482,795 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:20:05 PM Ignore jrcowell Report Abuse When electric vehicles become effecient enough to be worth their weight, they might become popular.
Ticobird Champion Author Huntsville Posts:3,205 Points:1,111,040 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:18:58 PM Ignore Ticobird Report Abuse Food for thought but honestly my electric rate was the first thing I thought of when first reading about production electric vehicles a few years ago.
jb107 Champion Author New Jersey Posts:9,529 Points:2,617,025 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:17:53 PM Ignore jb107 Report Abuse They have a long way to go before I would even look at them.
indrix All-Star Author Toronto Posts:582 Points:161,790 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:17:32 PM Ignore indrix Report Abuse Hybrid/electric cars will drive up the demand for electricity, consequently putting far greater pressure on this source of energy.
kuma2000 Champion Author Honolulu Posts:3,198 Points:669,175 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:17:04 PM Ignore kuma2000 Report Abuse oh well
Alfied Champion Author Riverside Posts:7,915 Points:1,751,285 Joined:Jun 2001	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:15:48 PM Ignore Alfied Report Abuse Most greenies don't care about that.
ChristinaCricke Champion Author New Jersey Posts:3,717 Points:762,600 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:15:28 PM Ignore ChristinaCricke Report Abuse Oh!
studebaker1940 Champion Author Tampa Posts:2,485 Points:681,580 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:15:11 PM Ignore studebaker1940 Report Abuse Another obvious choice.Let Obama and his kin drive the Volt into the White House pond to see how electricity works under water.
olebufnav Champion Author Omaha Posts:3,950 Points:1,018,255 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:14:14 PM Ignore olebufnav Report Abuse A little obvious, isn't it?
1cheapgasin Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:5,537 Points:1,205,740 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:13:45 PM Ignore 1cheapgasin Report Abuse figures
willp99 All-Star Author San Diego Posts:707 Points:748,010 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:13:31 PM Ignore willp99 Report Abuse Cpay, I never thought of it that way
CPayZombie Champion Author Phoenix Posts:10,042 Points:1,650,640 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:10:28 PM Ignore CPayZombie Report Abuse It is more efficient to just convert fuel in your car to mechanical energy than to burn fuel to generate electricity to store in a battery to convert back to electricity to convert to mechanical energy.
tco9436 Champion Author Connecticut Posts:1,767 Points:718,950 Joined:Mar 2010	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:10:16 PM Ignore tco9436 Report Abuse there's always a negative involved with new technology
Tekkie Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:4,333 Points:913,630 Joined:Oct 2003	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:10:11 PM Ignore Tekkie Report Abuse I get a charge out of stories like this. Bye, bye Chevy Jolt.
tomok Champion Author Portland Posts:32,906 Points:2,341,510 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:10:10 PM Ignore tomok Report Abuse Utility rates reduces environmental benefits of electric vehicles? It does Not matter what Brand or Model it is, Inbreds and EV's are too high priced for me. With the high price of purchasing a new EV or Inbred, I will drive my current vehicle into the ground before buying anything new, used, EV, Inbred, diesel, hydrogen, alternative fuel, CNG, concept or anything else. Whatever the size or shape of the vehicle, Produce and ‘Drive’ vehicles with high MPG, are very reliable, have a ‘reasonable’ cost and a good ‘value’ for the money. Consider using other forms of less expensive transportation to lower your cost, if possible. The price of fuel at the pump is too high! 12/22/2012!
belladog Champion Author Mobile Posts:2,565 Points:931,190 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:09:22 PM Ignore belladog Report Abuse ok
myambro Champion Author Sacramento Posts:3,194 Points:1,048,625 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:06:01 PM Ignore myambro Report Abuse Still just a toy for the rich.
AuburnTim Champion Author Indiana Posts:6,828 Points:1,559,190 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:05:58 PM Ignore AuburnTim Report Abuse High prices vehicles are not the answer
eye-spy Champion Author Quebec Posts:4,563 Points:2,413,620 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:05:56 PM Ignore eye-spy Report Abuse I believe that this was posted yesterday.
Cheepo Champion Author Tampa Posts:9,874 Points:3,124,980 Joined:Apr 2003	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:05:46 PM Ignore Cheepo Report Abuse Plenty of room alright!!! Electricity is NOT GREEN!!!!!!!!!!